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Today's visit from Alex Neil MSP .......what did you think?
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John Thomson
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:46 pm    Post subject: Today's visit from Alex Neil MSP .......what did you think? Reply with quote

Well after all the planning we have had our visit from the man who is drafting future dog legislation in Scotland.

All in all I feel the meeting went very well with Alex giving an indepth account of what the proposals are and how they might progress through the Scottish Parliment before becoming Law.

I have to say that reading the proposals I had several concerns but having spoken to Alex and heard his replies to all your questions I feel confident that the proposals can only be a good thing for responsible dog owners.

Please let me know your thoughts?




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Allan Campbell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

in my opinion john it sounded more structured and plausible than when i read it .. all in .. didn't sound too bad i still have concerns over dogs meeting and deciding things through natural pack behavior .. the uninformed could cause a lot of trouble through not understanding the ways of dogs and believing that others are being threatening ... its more the thought of the courts or " the powers that be " not having the background knowledge of dog behavior that most of us have ... in saying all of that .. my mind is more at rest knowing that the responsible dog keeper is safe thru this new legislation .. tho there are still some minor details .. more like personal annoyances .. that are unclear

ive said enuff .. biggest post so far for me i think .. Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he was quite well informed on the matter, able to answer the questions that were put to him, I think that when the final proposal is put forward it will make a lot of sense. We as responsible dog owners just need to keep an eye on each stage to make sure that nothing untoward creeps in but as a whole its a step in the right direction.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Allan Campbell wrote:
in my opinion john it sounded more structured and plausible than when i read it .. all in .. didn't sound too bad i still have concerns over dogs meeting and deciding things through natural pack behavior .. the uninformed could cause a lot of trouble through not understanding the ways of dogs and believing that others are being threatening ... its more the thought of the courts or " the powers that be " not having the background knowledge of dog behavior that most of us have ... in saying all of that .. my mind is more at rest knowing that the responsible dog keeper is safe thru this new legislation .. tho there are still some minor details .. more like personal annoyances .. that are unclear

ive said enuff .. biggest post so far for me i think .. Smile


Think you should go for a wee lie down after that exertion Allan Laughing Laughing

I think it sounded not too bad but there are a lot of grey areas. I also think there needs to be more public awareness on how and what they should report . Large breed dogs are still going to get that 'label 'no matter what.
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kendal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

he seems fairly willing to try and cover all areas as far as possible and trying to find ways to differentiate between good and bad owners, instead of just looking at the dog as the problem .
but i do agree with Allan that there are still problems regarding how they view certain cases and who is in charge of them and what experience or expertise they have ie behaviorists like when he was talking about the SPCA, but i have heard about dogs that have been assessed by behaviorists some of which suggested by the SPCA who's owners were told they were a lost cause and should be destroyed before they do any real harm, but with the right information and training the owners were able to turn the dog around, proving the behaviorists and or vets wrong.

but all in all the proposal sounds good and is definitely a step forward in protecting both man and mans best friend regardless of the breed.

i am glad to have attended and pleased that he could spare the time to come and speak with us and listen to our concerns and queries, although i do admit i think the extra hour would have been beneficial.
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Ashley
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I was happy with the meeting in most respects to be honest. It definitely was beneficial to have him there talking about it, and seemed clearer than the printed proposal. I left feeling better about it, but like most others still have my concerns over the grey areas, particularly the subjective nature of fear and the definitional difficulties that I'm sure they are facing with regards to "responsible dog owner", "fear" and "acting in a dangerous manner" and "out of control". Although, he did say these things were being addressed and so I will be interested to see the developments and progression at a later date.

Most legislative material has grey areas, and the impression I got was that incidents would be dealt with on an almost 'individual' case. It will all depend on the circumstances, and how 'responsible' the dog owner is.
The three main factors he seemed to use regarding a responsible dog owner were microchips, insurance and training classes.

Poor you Allan, your hand was up for ages!! Had to have a wee giggle when you eventually stood up though!!! Laughing
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kendal
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i know what you mean Ashly at one point i felt like sticking my hand up and if i got pick id say i was doing it for Allan as he has had his hand up since the start Laughing
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John Thomson
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry guys but I could see loads of hands up.........more time would have bee great but unfortunately we did not get that luxury...........I tried hard to let everyone have their say but an hour and a half disappeared in the blink of an eye.........

The important things as I saw it..........minor issues will not be a problem unless a pattern is established, being a member of a dog school/club will set and you in good stead if there is a problem, your dog is entitled to protect itself and/or you if it is on leash and attacked and is entitled to protect you and your property if faced by a burglar.........may seem like more questions than answers..........
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Allan Campbell
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

i thank you john ...i did notice you try to let me speak a couple of times .. not your fault others just spoke without waiting ..Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it was a good informative meeting. He was very amiable and non condescending (which is unusual for most MPs!!!) he was certainly keen to stress that these new proposals were there to help protect us, the responsible dog owners. I think what we can take away from todays meeting is that we CAN help shape the new laws in some small way. He was prepared to listen to our points of view and he did not talk in circles. I thought he gave quite clear and concise replies as far as he possibly could. Obviously the definitions MUST be clarified but as he said that is what is to be discussed at length and decided upon. At that point I am sure we will have more to discuss/debate and you never know maybe we can ask him to come back! Smile
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No point me rambling on, you have all said what I feel, particularly about the subjective nature of potential complaints and the need for more clarification. As mentioned on another post, I felt a lot better after listening to Alex.
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for organising the meeting, John. He was reassuring in many areas. I think that one good point made was that we need to look at the detailed outline when it is released in the Autumn.
A hall full of voters has a very focusing effect.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 12:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

thanks for organising the meeting we found it very informative

jack and debbie
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm delighted so many of you found it informative. Smile

Thanks to all of you who attended and participated in what turned out to be a great discussion. I'd like to say a thanks to Alex Neil MSP for coming along and meeting with us, it was most helpful.
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have to say when we were chatting before the meeting started Alex commented on the size of the turn out, and was surprised by the amount of dogs we train. The diversity of our group was not what he expected.

I also explained our group walks.......extreme walks and our Ben Lomond charity walk, he was genuinely surprised at the amount of things we do including getting together to arrange discounts on dog food etc. We certainly came across as a well organised group.
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