Lisa/Colin I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 1494 Location: Cumbernauld
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Lunging at other dogs
Another Hek-aggression related question...
Was watching one of the new Cesar Milan episodes last night where he was called in to help with a very dominant and sometimes people/dog aggressive Alaskan Malamute. They had the dog on a prong collar but this seemed to aggravate the dog even more when he was having one of his 'episodes'. It was as if it just increased the aggression. I have noticed that when I correct Hektor for lunging at other dogs he sometimes swings his head round at me. He has not ever connected but it is a worry...
Now I KNOW that my anticipating a potential problem when encountering another dog on lead IS probably the majority of the problem but even when I have tried to be calm with a relaxed arm and loose lead he still goes at it.
Has anyone encountered this 'ramping-up' of aggression in using a prong?
maybe because he is worked up, the sensation on his neck might feel like an attack if the tension is held, ie a quick correction but that is obviosluy hard if he is putting pressure on it himself. Im not very good at explaining it with text but is the prong not to simulate a correction that dogs would give each other, a quick nip to the neck, so if he is in attack mode, maybe the prong feels like an attack:) ok going to stop now as probably not making much sense _________________ We are forever responsible for what we have tamed
Actually Kerry that made perfect sense to me and I'm inclined to agree with you. Wish I could meet Hek and see his body language AND yours Lisa to see if there was anything I could pick up on and try to help.
When correcting him do you give him a quick short sharp tug TOWARDS your side rather than a pull back? Perhaps try combining that with a nudge to his ribs/rear end with your knee (a la Cesar) to reinforce the message and avoid the head turn towards you. As you are touching 2 different parts of his body at the same time (timing IS crucial with this) it SHOULD both confuse and re-focus him - he'll not know which bit to react to which should buy you some time to get him calmed down and re-focussed on you.
Have you thought about one of those other collars Cesar uses - the ones his wife designed that sit high up towards the head - a lot of dogs with aggressive issues have been helped enormously with that particular style of collar and as it's so high up usually your arm is out of harms way so he couldn't catch you whether accidentally or otherwise. _________________ Staffies are my life! Visit us at www.staffies.co.uk
Lisa/Colin I don't have a life ...I'm always here!
Joined: 13 Jan 2008 Posts: 1494 Location: Cumbernauld
Posted: Thu Dec 18, 2008 7:11 pm Post subject:
Thanks
Jack, I had thought about maybe trying one of those 'Ilusion' collars as i do get better results with him when the collar is high up on his neck behind his ears (where its meant to be!). The problem lies with his giraffe-like neck! I would have to stop every 2 or 3 steps to adjust it, yet if i was to remove any more links I would not get it fastened! Maybe try to source one from America, I know there is a link on the Dog Whisperer website.
Kerry I do get what you are saying, and I do agree, I try not to keep the pressure on it when passing another dog, try to make it short, sharp corrections but sometimes with his strength its all I can do to keep a hold of him...
Aha- THAT'S what they're called - I was trying to remember but it wouldn't pop into my head!!!! You SHOULD be able to get one tailor made for him I think because of their design you'll need to advise of the girth (DOWN boys!!!) and length of his neck so that problem will be easier to overcome I think
Best of luck with it - I hope you do get one to fit him because it sounds as if that could be a HUGE help to you both.xxxx _________________ Staffies are my life! Visit us at www.staffies.co.uk
I saw that episode as well. Have sky+it. Never seen anyone as calm as when the malamute ripped Cesars jumper and his arm. How calm was the lady with the stooge dog? Let me know if you want to watch it again and you could come over because I am the saddy who is in most nights whilst John is out working poor thing in all this wind and rain. Always happy to share my wine - it makes me feel less of an alcoholic drinking on my own.
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 2187 Location: Cumbernauld
Posted: Fri Dec 19, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject:
Lisa, It sounds like you are relying on physical strength to control him. That won't work. You have to relax and get calm. He will not calm down if you are so intensely concerned. I would ask John to do some one to one work with you and Hector to help you both gain a bit more confidence again.
The prong should not cause a problem if used properly. I understand the problem of the long Dane neck. Maybe you could try the long double collar that Cesar uses sometimes.
Good luck.
If you are continuing to be concerned I will give you the number of Jean Ross who works with SGDR on all our new arrivals. She might be able to give you some help if you went to see her with Hector. _________________ Regards,
Lorna, Basil & Poppy
Great Danes are not substitute children. They are much more important than that!
Lisa, It sounds like you are relying on physical strength to control him. That won't work. You have to relax and get calm. He will not calm down if you are so intensely concerned. I would ask John to do some one to one work with you and Hector to help you both gain a bit more confidence again.
The prong should not cause a problem if used properly. I understand the problem of the long Dane neck. Maybe you could try the long double collar that Cesar uses sometimes.
Good luck.
If you are continuing to be concerned I will give you the number of Jean Ross who works with SGDR on all our new arrivals. She might be able to give you some help if you went to see her with Hector.
Lorna THAT's the collar I was referring to - did Cesar's wife not design that one too? I think that one would be a huge help _________________ Staffies are my life! Visit us at www.staffies.co.uk
Joined: 24 Aug 2007 Posts: 2187 Location: Cumbernauld
Posted: Sat Dec 20, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject:
Thanks, I think that was the collar designed by his wife. I couldn't remember what it was called either. I didn't recognise the name 'Illusion'. Sorry. I have never used one but they seem to work when he uses them will a long necked dog like Danes. _________________ Regards,
Lorna, Basil & Poppy
Great Danes are not substitute children. They are much more important than that!
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but is the prong not to simulate a correction that dogs would give each other, a quick nip to the neck, so if he is in attack mode, maybe the prong feels like an attack:) ok going to stop now as probably not making much sense 
Perhaps try combining that with a nudge to his ribs/rear end with your knee (a la Cesar) to reinforce the message and avoid the head turn towards you. As you are touching 2 different parts of his body at the same time (timing IS crucial with this) it SHOULD both confuse and re-focus him - he'll not know which bit to react to which should buy you some time to get him calmed down and re-focussed on you.
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