First Walks

[Gordon]

I was going to leave my last post as my last but feel I have to come back one more time.

At no time have I mentioned that it is cruel to put a dog on a prong collar and that anyone in the club does not do the most to help the well being of their dogs. It is a tool that "I" wouldn't use on one of my dogs. For me it would have to be the very last thing I could try to help a dog with problems when exhausted all other training methods.

The reason I joined the club was for the sake of Bobby who had a problem with other dogs on a lead. He was needing socialization and it was fantastic to get him to mix with other sizes of dogs. My wife and I enjoyed most of the walks we were on.

As for Clyde I am taking him to agility classes and clicker classes as he is a very smart dog that needs a lot of "mental stimulation" to keep him calm. This wasn't the class for him.

As for myself I am helping out at this new class to learn from a border collie expert and train to become a dog trainer. I intend to do this over the next year before we move. Then I will be going into business with my brother who is an ex RAF police dog handler.

I wish you all well.

[Jack]

Nice post Gordon, I'm glad you came back on and made that to clarify your exact feelings.

I'm much the same way in that it's a last resort option for me too but I'd never dismiss it out of hand. People on here, as I understand it, have tried all sorts of methods and some have found the prongs work excellently for them and their dogs on all levels - it is to be admired that they have tried other methods first and use this tool now to ensure they, their dogs and others around them remain safe, healthy and happy.

I'd like to join Kendal in wishing you luck & success in the future. Take care and enjoy Bobby and Clyde.
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[Lorna]

Good luck, Gordon. Clyde will I am sure enjoy all the focused training.
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Regards,
Lorna, Basil & Poppy
Great Danes are not substitute children. They are much more important than that!

[shirley c]

I too wish you good luck Gordon, I enjoyed the walking and talking with you and your wife on occasion and will miss you out and about on these walks and Bobby and Clyde also

I do hope you hang about here and still keep popping in and out
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lurchers Pixel and Zev and whippet, Fen
3 cats, Greebo, Yu and Lexx - 2 ferrets and Dales pony Jazz and adopted pony, April

[John Thomson]

I wish you all the best for the future Gordon and know that Clyde with continue to thrive with you and hope that Bobby will continue to attend our classes with his new owner.
Josephine.....there seems to be a problem with the email address that you entered when you registered on the forum.......can you please check that it has been entered correctly in your profile......I assume that this was simply a 'typo' when you registered.

John
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[Michael]

Hi Josephine

Ive just noticed this post so sorry to bring this up again but it has to be done. I respect your opinion however I'm sorry you have not taken the time to find out more about the prong collar and how they work I'm glad that you have been able to find other methods that work for you but i have tried these methods to and had it not been for the prong i wouldn't have one of my dogs as on a lead he used to be completely unmanageable. I also had the benefit of working with a professional trainer at the club to show me how to use the collar properly and not abuse my dog or hurt my dog with it and the last thing anyone at the club would want to do is hurt the dogs. I would suggest that before you form any opinions you should challenge yourself to come to the club and see the dogs working with the prongs and how they are used i think you would be pleasantly surprised. however to judge people on the methods they use and to not know what a prong is actually for is in my eyes ignorance.

[Craig/Tracy]

I would just like to say i agree totally with Jack harness does make the dog pull and Halti can also be damaging if not used correctly as Enzo hated it head spinning, clawing his face trying to remove it and do you know what HE DOES LOVE HIS BIG OLD SUPPOSEDLY BIG BAD CRUEL PINCH COLLAR WHICH THAT TOOL AND JOHN SAVED MY BIG BABY BOYS LIFE

[Josephine]

Sorry, my computer has been down and I've been unable to reply till now. This will probably be my last post on this but I remain totally against the use of a prong collar. There is just no way I will ever put one on my dog. As regards the halti I have been unaware of any damaging effects from it but I am open minded enough to say that may be so and if so then I wouldn't use a halti again. Can someone give me a link to read about it please? Part of the reason I gave up on the halti was not only because it was ineffectual for us but also because Barney didn't like it at all. He kept rubbing his head against my legs to try and get it off. Then we tried a lupi harness on recommendation which helped with the pulling but left him red and sore looking in the armpits. Or should that be legpits? Very soon that went into the bin too never to be used again. After that we moved onto a tracker harness and that seems to work for us, not perfectly but enough.The harness didn't make my dogs pull more and is comfortable for them to wear hence that is why I use it and I know of no ill effects from using a harness other than the lupi. With a harness the resistance is on the shoulders so you are better able to control that if needed also the dog has freedom to move around while still being restrained if necessary for safety . I may well come to the class one night but I don't think I could bear to stand back and watch these nasty collars being used but as I said before if it makes even one person notice and refuse to use it on their dog then this will have been a worthwhile discussion.
As for Ceasar Millan, no I haven't read all his training methods and I believe he does do some excellent work but that doesn't negate the fact that when he is using a prong collar, yes, I do believe he's being cruel at that time.
Someone mentioned me posting about this on another forum. I'm not sure what they meant by their post but one thing I am absolutely sure of is that the use of prong collars would not be tolerated in BWS.
Now it's probably best to close this discussion because in no way will anybody change my mind on this. I am really distressed to know this practice is going on and so close to home too.
My email address on my profile is correct. The E in the middle stands for Elizabeth but as I said my computer has been down for a few days so if you tried to email me and it didn't get through that is probably why.
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Josephine
"The earth laughs in flowers"
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[kendal]

looking forward to seeing you at class some time.

pop up some photos of your dogs in the pet photo section.


as for Ceasar, i tends to start off by using the collars that the owners are already using. so the dogs owners were already using the prong, if he feels that he could work the dog better using the elision collar or loop lead, then he puts that on them himself.
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[Janis]

[Dave Rowland]

just quickly adding... i am a cat owner and haven't had a dog in the family for well over 25 years... well lets say that I thought the prong colar was unusual when John described it to me, but it was described to me and i thought it sounded evil. however when i saw it i didn't actually see that it could be that vicious, so when I was visiting at xmas i was out with his two GSD's and I took control of Murphy who is a strong dog and felt quite safe with him, he didn't pull too hard and looking closely i saw no damage to him. John didn't convince me and I made my own mind up that they seemed quite a sensible way of improving dog control, however I dont think they are suitable for all kinds of skins, so i think you got to judge what is good for your dog.

i still sticking to cats for the time being tho. lol
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Quoting Jack: you know me - a complete hopeless case & Sadly - and mark it in your diaries folks as you won't see this happen often - but <gulp> I HAVE to agree with Dave on this.
Quoting Kendal: coulu you decapitate innes for me please

[Ross/Ali]

meow
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[Craig/Tracy]

this must be the longest post ever

[Dave Rowland]