Training Collars

[Gordon]

I was wanting to get every body's opinions on training leads. With going to classes and on all the walks I have noticed the vast array of leads on the market and also what everyone have been using.
I think I have used almost every type from Flat, Check, Half Check, Halti and Harnesses. With different classes and "experts" advice of what to use.
With my collie Clyde I prefer to use a check chain on a short lead. He never pulls, but sometimes just needs a quick check to just get him focused again. If working on a long training lead I just use a flat collar.
I have seen lots of methods I don't agree with, but don't feel its my place to say anything against it. Personally I dont like the use of prong collars, but others do. I also know some people don't like the use of check chains, but I do.
So what is your opinions?

[Janis]

going.back.to.over.25.years.ago.i.would.have.sworn.by.the.choke.chain....however.since.discovering.the.prong.collar.i.would.use.no.other!... i.have.3.happy.bouncy.dogs.that.get.excited.at.the.sight.of.them.being.lifted.as.this.indicates.that.they.are.going.for.walkies! i.have.tried.both.the.halti.and.harness.and.found.them.to.be.unsuitable.as.it.encourages.them.to.pull.and.not.focus.on.walking.when.on.lead! all.in.all.my.dogs.are.happy.with.my.choice.as.pack.leader.run.jump.and.wag.their.tails.in.glee!
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Cockapoo's...a little of this, a little of that..........
the perfect combination!

[Gordon]

I'm not trying to get anyone's back up. I was just wanting to get a debate going on a subject that we should all have an opinion on.
These are all tools and have a place with situations that require them. I don't use a check chain all the time either. I also think they are dangerous for dogs with owners that don't know how to fit the correctly. As is a prong collar.
As I have said they are tools and even a flat collar can be deadly in the wrong hands.

[Janis]

you're.not.starting.anything.i.am.just.saying.what.i.fine.with.my.dogs!.....so.don't.fret.gordon!!!
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Cockapoo's...a little of this, a little of that..........
the perfect combination!

[charlene]

before i came to classes i just used a normal collar......and taking tina out for walks was just awful......pulling me all over the place and her choking herself
then i got a prong.......the best thing i have ever bought for my dog........walking is fun now and tina is much happier, dont get me wrong when i first seen the prong on the dogs at class i thought "who are these sick people" haha sorry guys
but then when i learned a bit about it and shown how to use it......i changed my mind completely lol

as for choke chains i dont like them....i think they are more cruel than a prong but thats just my opinion
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[kendal]

i like the kind of lead we use, its part of the halti range and has two clips on either side i like it because i can attach it round my waist.

at the kennels a see a verity of different leads. the chain hurt my hand and im not keen on the flat nylon as i don't like the feel of it when im walking the dog.
not so keen on the feel of leather leads especially when they are wet as they feel like they have a slimy coating on them but i think that's just me.

we also have our own leads at the kennels which are the rope loop leads, simile to the check chain. Ceases trick relay dose work.
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microchiping and grooming www.chipnclip.co.uk

[graceb]

Gordon, I use a prong collar on my Doberman Dexter, before the prong a tried all types of leads collars, choke chains, flat collar, two different types of halti's (the last halti I tried actually did terrible damage to his nose it was swollen for weeks) slip lead, half chokes, etc, etc..... but in the end the only collar that worked was the Prong. He can still pull with a prong on but not bad enough that I can't hold on to him Although he is much better behaved now and mostly walks good and doesnt want to eat everybody that he finds suspisious
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Grace & Dexter

[Jack]

Normal leather collars for me. Leads I favour the leather handle with chain link as they give me the flexibility and strength I want.

The first 5/10 minutes or so of our walks are always spent with me checking the dogs as Staffs are so exhuberant they always pull no matter how well they are capable of walking Ella's the best and most responsive to any training, Rosie being thick, bless her, takes ages longer to train, nothing seems to sink in Sykes is a pain to walk - he's such a good boy in the house doesn't do anything wrong at all really apart from get a tad overexcited in play sometimes but walks are a different ball game with him it's a constant battle of wills to keep him in check.

I don't like choke chains personally - Sykes will choke himself on ANY lead he needs no help but I do know they are excellent for some dogs as are prongs which again I don't much "like" but if employed correctly I know they are an absolute Godsend. I never judge a person on what type of collar/lead they use to help them and their dogs be safe and enjoy walks but I DO "judge" if the person doesn't take the time and care to find the correct tool or employ them correctly and cause harm to their dogs in the process.

The one tool I still struggle with is the ECollar. I just don't like them - I KNOW they are hugely useful IF used correctly and working properly but I still struggle with the humane aspect of them and the knowledge that electric shocks can blooming hurt. I don't like causing any amount of pain to any furry - all too easily done if you don't know how to use these properly or set at the level wrong for your dog or worse if it malfunctions and delivers a higher charge than you want it to
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Staffies are my life! Visit us at www.staffies.co.uk

[Gordon]

I have started using the slip rope lead when walking and training, and have to say I really like it. Very similar to the check chain but it stays in position better at the top of the neck.
I'm with you Jack. Every collar has it uses and it is up to the owner to find out what works best for them.
I was in Acorn pets last week and there was a young collie there with just a flat leather collar. It got nervous with the other dogs around and pulled back. It slipped its head out the collar are ran into the glass doors. Very dazed, it took off after the doors opened. It was very lucky no cars were around in the car park. That's what i meant by even a flat collar can be deadly. collar have to be fitted correctly or the don't work the way they should.
That is why I said I like a check chain, not a CHOKE chain. The sound of the links going through the loop should be what gets the dog to know what is needed. Not the jerk back as a correction.
The problem with the check chain is that some people don't know how to put it on so that the chain instantly releases once the check has used. And yes I am trying to find a better tool for use on a collie. I think the slip rope is that tool at the moment.
Its very PC at the moment not to use any check chains and prong collars for training. Most dog schools have a definite "no" to the use of them. I believe the dog has to be taught not to pull through training and also through respect of the owner, and not just use a collar that makes it do something or it will feel some pain.

[Jack]

I'm toying with the idea of a slip type lead collar/lead for Sykes. Trouble is he's a wriggler as well as a puller so I'm not confident it's the right tool for him. If he's out without the girls he's better but does still try it on. I like walking them as a pack but he does spoil it with this behaviour - I guess more one on one training is required......now just one problem there.......where to find the time
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Staffies are my life! Visit us at www.staffies.co.uk

[kendal]

[shirley c]

I have found the prong a godsend with Luka and before that on Daka, my mums ridgeback. We had Luka to the vets last week with Pixel, just to get him used to going in and we decided not to use the prong, we have a good relationship with the vets but im not sure their views on the prong,
anyway, we had luka on a flat collar and after the vets we went to Go and Allan went to pay for something and Luka took off and there was no way I could hold him and I had to just drop Pixel and hold Luka with grimms death till allan got to us and we were nearly out the shop


I got a loan of a Canny collar, it is much like the Halti, but the pull is from behind so you arent yanking the dogs head round so isnt as bad on their neckseither and it doesnt pull into the eyes as much, so def. going to get one of these to alternat between the prong and it

http://www.cannyco.co.uk/index.php

Meant to say, I love my leather leads, either the long training ones or just plain normal length leather lead, I swear by them, I hat the chain ones and even the webbing or rope type hurt be...I prefer leather bridles for horses too, I hate those webbing ones, tho i do love synthetic wintec saddles
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lurchers Pixel and Zev and whippet, Fen
3 cats, Greebo, Yu and Lexx - 2 ferrets and Dales pony Jazz and adopted pony, April

[Craig C]

I prefer the chain leads with a leather handle myself. The handle is comfortable in the hand, while you know the chain is strong enough that he isn't going anywhere you don't want him to without physically dragging you along behind him. I normally walk him with just the handle in my hand, and if I see something ahead which I think 'might' startle or excite him, I simply take a wrap of the chain around my hand.
As for collars...., each to their own really. Bran currently has a twisted nylon collar, our previous dog, an English Springer Spaniel, had a leather collar but when being taken out for a walk we used a choke chain, when he heard the chain start to tighten, he knew to either slow down, or speed up to catch up.
When I take my brothers GSD out, it's with a synthetic collar and one of the extending leads, he knows to slow down whenever he hears the 'catch' being applied. Even just applying and instantly releasing is enough for him to check back and return to your side.

I pretty much take the view of what's right, is whatever works for the particular dog and owner combination.
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Craig (& Bran)

Bran's Photo's

[Craig/Tracy]

Well the first collar Enzo had was a flat leather collar which he pulled as he got bigger,then we tried the halti for a while which his head was constantly spinning trying to get free from it ,we then went for the choke chain but he was actually going to end up passing out as he was cutting off his blood supply because he was still pulling and i remember that i ended up with bruised blood all over my hand trying to control him then we met John and he suggested the prong collar which myself and Craig thought too good to be true, first walk with it was like a huge weight lifted from our and Enzo's shoulders as all of us started enjoying walking and would not be without it now, when i took Enzo to the vets i had his prong collar on and she did not mention anything about it, i know that some people can be rude and think this is cruel but each to their own i say, bring it on anybody who confronts me when out a walk

[John Thomson]

Interesting to hear everyones views.........hence I have waited to post.

In a perfect world none of our dogs would wear collars.....natural selection would occur and the ones with no road sense would not survive........and the ones who could cope with no collar in our busy towns would be the ones that would go on to produce litters........

However I love my dogs and would on purpose not allow them into a situation where they could injure/kill themselves or injure/kill another dog or worse....a child or adult...hence some form of collar or means to protect and control a dog is needed.

If a flat collar is sufficient for a given dog then that is the perfect tool......next up would be a half check......personally I don't like full check or ' choke' chains........put one on your arm and give it a yank......a bruise will appear very quickly. A pinch or prong collar is a collar that looks like a torture implement but exerts even pressure when a dog pulls.......far less harmful.

as for E collars......in the right hands they are a tremendous tool......go onto youtube and search for videos by sitmeanssit.com ..........all their dogs are trained with e collars..contrary to popular belief they are not designed to hurt a dog......they are multi adjustable and also have an audible beep.......and are far less stressful to a dog than it choking itself and dragging an owner down the street. I f a dog is getting into dangerous situations then I would use whatever means I could to modify a dogs behaviour and perhaps save its life......the Cesar Milan episode where he stopped the dog approaching the snake using the e collar comes to mind.

As a foot note a while ago I was at a commercial kennel ( which will remain nameless). The owner bred and trained competition obedience dogs........she was horrified that my dogs wore pinch collars and told me what she thought of them..I stood my ground and argued my case for them.....she proceeded to tell me that if a dog she had bred was no use for obedience she would have it PST rather than continue with it........and she told me I was being cruel to my dogs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Every training tool/aid has its place ...and EVERY one can be abused..........I have seen people reduce a dog to a quivering wreck simply with their voice.

hope that made sense?

john
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk