Dominance and Dog Training APTD

[Gordon]

Here is a statement from the Association of Pet Dog Trainers, in America. This is the largest training body in America.

[John Thomson]

Have to say as soon as I saw the ludicrous statement that an Alpha male is the most aggressive pack member I stopped reading........the Alpha is the most dominant pack member, not the most aggressive.

I can't think of any animal group where the leader is the most aggressive member. Leaders are calm and in control not aggressive, quite the opposite it is lower ranking animals who display aggression.

Just my opinion.

john
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[Gordon]

I think you read that wrong John. It said that contrary to belief that alpha males are aggressive, they actually live in a social group similar to a human family. They also say that dogs are not wolves and should be thought of that way.

[John Thomson]

You are correct Gordon.........I read a quite a bit further.

The main aim of the 'association' seem to be to charge $150.00 annually to be able to say you belong.....no other criteria, simply an ability to pay the fee.


"About Our Members

Please refer to our "How to Choose a Trainer"guidelines before selecting a dog trainer.

The APDT is dedicated to building better trainers through education, promoting dog-friendly methods and encouraging their use. Our membership is composed of trainers from across the spectrum of training philosophies who have an interest in furthering their knowledge of positive training. Membership in the APDT does not necessarily ensure all members employ similar training methods,nor does the Association set standards of skill or competence.

Membership in the Association is open to all who pay annual dues and includes individuals with a wide range of experience, knowledge, and skill. The APDT is primarily an educational organization and encourages its members to make use of training methods that use reinforcement and rewards, not punishment, to achieve desired behavior."


As the largest of it's type it must be quite a profitable business...... over 6000 members at $150 each give a website a turnover approaching $1million plus the sponsorship they talk of.......yet everyone seems to be a volunteer if you believe the website

john
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John Thomson
www.cumbernaulddogtraining.co.uk

[Gordon]

I agree 100% with you John. Just because you are a member of an organisation doesn't mean you have any qualifications. I'm not a member by the way.

Over in the states as here, there is no formal qualifications you need to start as a dog trainer. There are places to go to learn how to teach a class etc. These can be done in a weekend.

I myself am doing a 2 year coarse on training and behavior, but at the end of it still wont have a "qualification" that is set by a government body.

The only thing 2 trainers will agree on is the guy down the road is crap. We all teach to our personality. It was the same when I taught my trade at Falkirk College and also over in Canada the last time I lived there. You taught what you were strong with. I'm a hands on tradesman, rather that a CNC man.

What I am saying is you have to go to a class and see if you like the trainer and what they do. Qualifications doesn't mean to say that someone is a better teacher, just better at passing a test.

[Laura-Anne]

Personally I think it’s a balance. No dog is ever going to believe that I am a dog, obviously, they’re smarter than that. Nor do I want her to think of me in that way. If she did she would defend her toys and food the same way she does with other dogs rather than letting me take it no questions asked. Not because im pack leader its because im human. But I still think its important to understand how they interpret emotions, actions, behaviors, which can be observed in wolf behaviors. Of course it is not the same it is just a broader understanding.

However, I do use alpha roll, have done with BenJay and Muffin. Not to prove my worth over them, show aggression or even to give them into trouble, but it’s a shock tactic to divert their attention. To be honest, I know this may lead to people saying what emotional consequences I may be causing the dog or the danger of using the technique. But it has worked for me. I have used it on an aggressive dangerous dog and a submissive dog for different affects. Yes BenJay would try reach me to give me a nip once he realized what had happened. However I would rather him attempt and fail to give me into trouble for holding him than being attached to someone’s face. This was the only time I used this tactic with him. I would never have let anyone else do it to him as I was the only person he would work for. It never affected our relationship. He wasn’t scared of me (by any means!) but he would still not attack me. He would not respond to diversion tactics, when he wanted someone he would spend hours trying to get to them. The only other way to combat this would be leaving him in a cage all day every day which of course is no better. Muffy gets herself into such a blind panic sometimes when she is left alone, even for a minute. She will froth at the mouth, pant, shake, bark even once ive returned. She will then jump all over me which of course I ignore and turn my back on. She has herself so fixated she doesn’t even realize everything is ok. Rather than praise her and let it continue, I put her down. It makes her stop for just a second so she realizes there is no danger and she is fine after that. I realize there are other tactics but im not trying to coe her, im trying to make her snap out it so she’ll realize there is nothing to worry about. Shes scared of loud noises so this would just make her more distressed. She is made to stay without me holding her till she is calm and then she can continue as normal. It usually only takes a minute tops. I would never use this tactic every time I came home when she has been alone. Only when she is at her extreme. Yes she would calm eventually without me doing the drop tactic but only when she saw everything as going back to normal, in which case she will never learn.

But of course that works for me with my dogs, I don’t think id be able to do that to anyone else’s dog or a dog I don’t know because I wouldn’t be able to interpret what they’ll do next. Just depends on the individual as with any training tactic.


Ps with the discussion of trainers, completely agree. I dont care whose qualified to do what as long as they have a genuine love of the species and not the money and they a good understanding of dog behaviours.
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